Latest release: Goliath
Label: Nuclear Blast
Website: www.kataklysm.ca
Canadian death metal band Kataklysm survived the pandemic, and in delivering their 15th studio album, titled Goliath, have unleashed one of their most crushing and ferocious outings in years. Fuelled by a strong work ethic, and a sense of pride in their work, Goliath takes the theme of resilient defiance, and harnesses their non-compromising attitude into a body of work that pummels all and sundry with the musical salvo within a no-nonsense 40 minutes. Vocalist Maurizio Iacono barks with intensity and unbridled aggression, adding to the layered Kataklysm sound.
Kataklysm last toured Australia on the back of their 2018 release Meditations, in 2019, with Sweden’s Hypocrisy. Then in late 2020, at the height of the pandemic, released the aptly titled and hammering album Unconquered. Their drummer of several years, Oli Beaudoin, left the band in 2020, but was replaced with blast beats machine James Payne. After settling in with their new line up, Goliath was recorded in a handful of studios, including founding French-Canadian guitarist Jean-François Dagenais’ own JFD Studios in Dallas, Texas. Paul Southwell caught up with Dagenais [aka JF Dagenais], the Juno Award winning mix engineer, record producer, guitarist and song writing force behind Kataklysm.
Hot Metal: The latest album clocks in at a tight forty minutes, and this time you both engineered, and produced it. I gather that was pretty taxing on you.
Jean-François Dagenais: In a way, yes because whenever you work on a record, at least for myself, it is like I put my life on hold for maybe three or four months, and every day, I breathe, eat, and sleep this record. So, everything you’ve got, you put it in there. But I am really proud of how it turned out and all of the things that we were able to achieve with it. Of course, we have a new drummer, who brought a lot of energy to the record, and also I am playing the seven string guitar for a second album, not just because I was using it on the Unconquered record, but I was dabbling a little bit with it, so it was kind of new, but now that I kind of know how to handle it and I know what I can do with it, I brought a lot more of those elements to this album, and I feel more comfortable with it, so that is kind of like a new energy and a new vibe as well. At the same time, we are still trying respect the roots of what the band is, and all that. I don’t know, all the stars were aligned, and we all got in the right zone for this album. I am so happy with how it came out.
HM: The drumming on it is intense.
JFD: Yeah, I mean, James [Payne] is a great drummer and he is ten years younger than us, so he still has a lot of energy and a lot to offer. So, we were able to raise the bar musically speaking because of him, because we were able to play at tempos that we are normally not able to reach. It seems unhuman, but he is able to do it, so the rest of us are being kept on our toes, and we are pushing forward. Sometimes, some songs are a little bit outside of our comfort zone, which I like because you’re pushing yourself, or driving yourself, and the result is amazing.
HM: He appears to be ambidextrous, including on blast beats.
JFD: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is completely fluid on both hands, I see him do things, and he doesn’t have a kit that is that big, but he uses every single part of it. It is beautiful to see and as a guitar player, I love to play with him, and the energy is great, and he just has that vibe. I think that he fits the band really well.
HM: How is the arranging sorted out this time since previously you had prior drummer Oli [Beaudoin] doing it?
JFD: Yeah, on this record, I kind of took over that part. I used to do it before Oli, and now I am back doing it again, and I think that really enjoyed doing it because of the vibe we have in the band right now with James and all that. We came to an agreement of what the band is, and we respect that, and we also brought our own elements to the soup, and I found that as a producer on this record, it was kind of cool to jump between being the guitar player and then I would put my producer hat on, and be like, ‘Okay, here is how we are going to do the arrangement,’ and get down the performance of the guys. I think that in the end, on the producing side, it is all about having the vision, or the big picture, before we even start. That is a big thing, and being able to see where we might go is better and makes it easier for me to lead this thing, guiding the ship in the right direction. I used to do it for the band before and when Oli came into the band, he kind of took over that part for just a couple of records; I was happy to just be the guitar player and not be this other guy. For once, I could express myself for the different awake, which I like, but now, thinking back, that part of the job, I love it as well and I have been doing studio work for the past thirty years which is another element that I love. Combining the two passions worked great and the guys trust me, and we made it work and we have created a good album together.
HM: Having that simple but effective sonic spectrum makes it come live in the mix, which is presumably from the mixing and mastering input of Chris Clancy and Colin Richardson, in an assistance capacity. So, a song like “Gravestones and Coffins” opens with sounds in the left speaker before the full band comes in across the audible range, and the kit has it all arranged to where you would ‘see’ the kit if you closed your eyes to listen to it.
JFD: Yeah, of course, it is like as if you are sitting behind it. We were talking about that beforehand and obviously I spoke with Chris and Colin about different things; how they wanted things and how I wanted things, so that we kind of came at it with a gameplan. For the drums, I love feeling like you are sitting behind the kit and then you see everything that is going on; the cymbals, the toms, the kicks and snare; it all has to be well balanced. I like it when it feels natural as well, not too digital, so we are trying to find the right balance between a modern sound and a more old school sound. We aim at somewhere in the middle of all that, and that was really important. We didn’t want to sound like super technological where everything seems to perfect and becomes fake. We wanted to leave a bit of that natural thing going on in the tracks.
HM: It reminded me a little bit of Rush, in the sense that the drumming is so clear in the mix.
JFD: Yeah, that is James’ magic, and he wrote a lot of his stuff, and comparing that to Neil Peart would, in a way, be a good example, because he is very mathematical and methodical, and everything has a reason of being there. It is very awesome to hear it.
HM: You mentioned using seven string guitars, with the trend in metal to have sounds massively quantised and down tuned, what tunings are you using on the new album and how did you stop it becoming a big bass driven mess?
JFD: Ha, yeah, I mean, that brings a new set of problems to play this low and you have to figure it out. Of course, there is the right gauge strings to use for the right tuning, and guitars have to be perfectly set up in a certain way, otherwise it doesn’t work, and you have to handle the picking in a different way as well. If you hit the string too hard, you’re going to get that vibration that is going to make it super messy, so it has to be played tight but as a guitar player it is even more of a challenge. I play a lot of those seven string riffs as if they were six strings and I try to add that same tightness and those same picking habits that I have, and it’s kind of hard but there are no real solutions to it, you just have to get it done; just practise and get it done. So that is what I did; I practised a lot and having been playing it [seven string guitar] for two records, I am much more comfortable with it now than on the previous album. Using it on the previous album was more of an experiment but now I have got it locked down, and I know what do with it. The same applies when it comes time to mix all the instruments together, you have to have the right way of planning it, so it doesn’t sound like a bit hot mess of strings and low end ‘bleurgh’. It is tuned to F#, and normally we are always tuned to B standard, so this adds another string so my sixth string on the seven string is still a B so it allows me to play the normal songs that way I would, and then I just add that extra beefy string for power.
HM: Are any of the riffs and guitar rhythm figures doubled with Stephane [Barbe – bassist] basslines?
JFD: Well, yeah, with Stephane, I think that in the beginning he had a harder time to adapt to the extra string than me because it was so low that he had a hard time hearing the notes. It was like, ‘I don’t know if you are playing F, A or B, it is hard for me to hear the difference,’ but then was we played on the last album and did all those tours together more with that new tuning, he got a lot more used to it, to do it, so I think that now as a band, we all know what to do with that sound and what, we as a band, can do with our instruments. We are much more comfortable with it, and it shows on the record. For us, we decided to do this, not just to get a nicer sound, it was more like, ‘Hey, I got the seven string out for fun,’ and I thought that this could be cool to add that element to the songs and I think it brings something more rather than not having it, and I like what we can do with it, so I enjoy what we are doing with that sound.
HM: You can still hear the bass tones appearing, it is prominent for the last track, particularly in “The Sacrifice for Truth”, particularly with the lines that are in there, so you can hear that sound and how it has evolved.
JFD: The thing is, we are not playing on the seven string for the whole album through, there are sections to add that extra beef or extra power, so if I am playing on the fifth and sixth strings, it is like the normal tunings we use and that we would have on our other records but it is just that we have that element where it counts, we would add that extra punch in the face, you just add that extra string and then it goes [sing example riff] and as a guitar player, I always like those chugging things, and with an extra string, you can chug even harder. So, it is fun to do.
HM: There are few tracks on there were you have open arpeggios and a flattened fifth note selection [“Dark Wings of Deception”, “Bringer of Vengeance” and “The Sacrifice for Truth”]. You’ll reprise that and bolster it with a heavier rhythm track. It is a bit Slayer influenced in a way.
JFD: Yeah, I love to layer songs because even though we have only one guitar player in Kataklysm, I like to have it with the perspective of two guitar players sometimes. I keep the chords in the back and then I will add to it, some melody lines or notes on top of it, to do different things. When we play live, I choose which of the guitar parts are the most prominent, and we go like that, but on the record, I didn’t want stop myself from being only one guitar player and having to say, ‘Hey, we are going to do only these parts because it is unrealistic if we add more.’ I would rather add more tracks to make it sound fuller and then figure out a way to do it live when it works.
HM: There are no solos on the album, it is more of interludes if anything, in that regard.
JFD: I’ve never been a big solo guy, I like it, but I am not the best shredder in the world. I can play my solos but for me, I was writing those tracks and I didn’t feel the need for solos anywhere after we finished the structures of the songs. I realised, after we finished everything, that there were no solos and I thought, ‘Okay, maybe I can find a spot where I can fit one in there for the whole record?’ but then the guys told me, ‘You know what, screw it, let’s just roll with it because it is done, it sounds great and we’re happy with it.’ It was almost like I didn’t want to put a solo there for the sake of putting a solo there just to say that we have a solo. I was happy with the way it was, and maybe on the next record, we might add some solos, but we’ll just go with the flow.
HM: Some of the interludes, and melody or harmony line overdubs, almost act as a solo line, in a way.
JFD: Yeah, I mean for me, I prefer that as a player and as a music fan. I’m a melody guy and I like the twin guitar parts and the way that a melody carries a song in certain parts before going back to the heavier sections. I find that I enjoy melodies more than solos but when a solo is done well, and fits the part, it is beautiful but sometimes there is no need for it. It’s not like there is a rule with the band, it just happened that way on this record. Maybe next record we will throw in more, it just depends on how we feel about the song, whilst we are writing it.
HM: How would you say your songwriting has changed over the years, especially since the pandemic and how you approach song writing these days?
JFD: Well one thing that is important for me is that I don’t want to repeat myself on records, meaning that I don’t want to be that band that writes the same album fifteen times. I like every album to be different and to see how we can push ourselves musically. Also, the arrangements and the song themselves; we wanted to go a little bit out of the box and bring in new things that were kind of new to us and at the same time, we wanted to respect the roots of the band, and plan it all in a way that makes sense. I think that we approached it in a sense that as long as it fits within the Kataklysm concept, we didn’t want to have any limits on where it could go, so some songs are crazy fast, and have tonnes of notes in it, whilst other songs, like “Bringer of Vengeance”, are super open and groovy, and have that one note chugging; super simple but it works really well and it brings a level of heaviness that I really love. It was really about the song, and what it needed and seeing how far we could push things. That is what makes it fun for me to play in this band and play guitar, just to see where we can bring things on the creative side and on the songwriting side.
HM: Speaking of fast, “From the Land of the Living to the Land of the Dead” is so fast that it feels like a triple groove. It is insanely quick.
JFD: Yeah, I got the idea because when I first started writing the song, I just had that idea of the big piano notes in the background of the riff, and that super-fast blast beat, so then I came up with the idea of the melody that goes with it. That was that thing, that I wanted to have a super crazy and fast, and intense, and at the same time, very dark opening for a track. When I pieced it together, I was so happy about how it was sounding. I sent it to the guys and asked James if he could play it at tempo and for him that was no problem. He plays this thing like it was almost a joke, but for that track, I think that it is really intense, and it brings another angle to the album that I really like.
HM: Have you adopted digital modelling for amplifiers nowadays?
JFD: Yeah, and I started using it a long time ago when they came out with Line 6 PODs and actually, for the longest time, I played a POD 2.0 live, for the Shadows & Dust and Serenity in Fire tours, and stuff like that. I was already into the whole thing of modelling and when it got better, of course I had to get myself a Kemper, and I thought that was awesome; the idea that you could bring your studio tone with you anywhere you go and have that same tone every night. It is just like magic, and you give that to the engineer, and they’re super happy, plus the fans are happy because it sounds like the profile of the record. I find that killer and I kept some of the profiles from different albums so if play different songs, I can actually swap it to the profile of the record so that you get that sound that people are used to, and I find that really convenient. It takes five minutes to set up and you’ve got an awesome tone, and now, lately I’ve just got myself a Quad Cortex [Neural DSP] so I am messing with it, and I haven’t used it really, just yet but I really like what you can do with it. I like testing up from the ground and I have a bunch of amplifiers here in the studio and this is just like giving you access to more amps, plus a lot of my friends are creating tones and they are sending it to me, and we trade stuff and I like to have that opportunity to try different things. For me, in the studio, it is also a lifesaver, because sometimes I will work with a band that wants to have a certain sound and to have all these options available at the press of a button provides all these great amp sounds, and you can play with them. I find the technology great, and I hope it keeps improving, and I am looking forwarding to seeing what they come up with in a few years from now.
HM: It is amazing to think that you can get all these tones easily without spending a lot of money and cranking up all tube amplifiers are ear shattering volumes.
JFD: In some ways I miss the old days and I still like to work with amps once in a while. On stage, I still have amps, the tone that goes to front of house is my Kemper but onstage, I still have an amp for a monitor because I still like to feel the vibe of cabinet. It changes nothing because it is really for me, or for us as a band, as the cabinets drive the guitars on stage but whatever the people hear is the Kemper tone, but I like to have both. Then in the studio it is cool to have amps to create your own profiles and I like to mess with it, spending hours with my microphones, trying to find the perfect set up for the cabinet, and then I will profile that. I have tonnes of tones saved up; I like that you can work that way now with saving tones. Before, if you had the perfect set up in the studio, sometimes, somebody moves a microphone and you’re done, your tone is gone. Ha-ha.
HM: Finally, what you be your favourite track on this latest album?
JFD: It is hard to pick one but I if had to, I would pick the opener, “Dark Wings of Deception”. I think the opening riff and the chords are so mean sounding, and I love that, for the whole song itself. I really like this record, I think we came up with this thing where I like every song and I find every arrangement to be in the right spot, and everything is there, at least for me, as an artist, I am very proud of it, and I am hoping that the fans will enjoy it and maybe some new people will check it out and start liking our band. I am excited because I have been talking to many people around the world and I’ve heard nothing but positive feedback for this album so hopefully it keeps going like that. I am stoked about it.
HM: It is very concise, very tight and trimmed of fat. Any chance you might be touring Australia again soon?
JFD: We’d love to and so far, the plans are that we will be going to the summer open air shows in Europe, we then have album release shows at smaller clubs in Germany. The plan would then be to go to other parts of Europe in the winter of next year, then over to the United States from there, then after that we would love to come to Australia and perhaps tie that in with Japan and other countries around the area and make it like a big thing, yeah, and then go back to South America and Canada. We were originally from Canada but we haven’t played there in years so we would love to go back and a proper Canadian tour; that would be fun.
HM: Thanks for your time.
JFD: Thanks so much, and hopefully we will see you in Australia again someday.